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On the train ride back from Patna (#BiharFOSS), @ravi and I sardonically thanked Trump for the state of things in the US, which may have been why #GitHub disabled the #OrganicMaps repo and forced them to move to #FreedomRespecting #Forgejo.
"This will hopefully teach people why it's important to boycott #proprietary platforms. But why do people always wait around for such things to pass? #FreeSoftware activists had been warning them for like 10 years!" (Also...Sourceforge???)
@contrapunctus @ravi isn't the issue in this case orthogonal to 'big US corp exploiting you' and aren't they likely to have exactly the same issue on codeberg?
@contrapunctus@en.osm.town@simon No. It's simply that - in our capitalist dystopia where private property is unfortunately still a thing - when you're on someone else's private property, you're there on their terms (and whims).
The terms of @Codeberg and their European laws are undoubtedly better than those of GitHub and the US. And Codeberg is undoubtedly going to be a better host (in the "party host" sense) than #GitHub. I've seen communities provide much greater transparency of process than any company.
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@contrapunctus isn't the shutdown due to sanctions against RU / individuals that are connected with sanctioned RU entities?
Self hosting or going somewhere else doesn't really fix that because you are always going to be dependent on somebody that is required to follow them (not touching on the subject if you should even want to circumvent sanctions in this case).
@simon @contrapunctus How is Europe or other countries required to follow sanctions by USA? If a service provider is also doing business in US, they may be compelled. But codeberg hosts their own servers and as far as I know they are not required to follow US laws. Do you have any sources to prove Europe also follow the same sanctions as USA?
Politics has many complicated factors. Something that applies to a US company don't necessarily apply to companies not operating in USA.
@praveen @contrapunctus for example https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions-against-russia/
PS: in practical terms though companies will not circumvent US sanctions even if they are not locally legally required to follow them. For example codeberg needs a payment processor that will deal with them, zero chance of that if you are violating US sanctions.
@simon @contrapunctus Did codeberg or visa / mastercard start doing it already? It'd be harder, but bank transfers or European payment processors would work (Is there a European alternative for visa / master card?) Or is entire SWIFT network already enforcing sanctions. At least for India and China, we have local payment processors (RuPay cards and UPI).
@praveen @contrapunctus you literally just have to look up SWIFT and Russia in Wikipedia, and there is no "already" about it that was three years ago.
@simon @contrapunctus But does EU sanctions include individual contributors to Codeberg like the US sanctions force Github / Linux Foundation ? I have asked this directly to Codeberg as well.
@simon @contrapunctus I was respinding to your point about payment processors. But why would they act against Codeberg in the first place? Do you have any sources that says Codeberg has the same obligations under US/EU sanctions as Github ?
@simon @contrapunctus @praveen I understand migration from #Github is a complicated and difficult thing to do. That's what vendor lock-in means. On a similar note, @conservancy has written a nice article keeping such complications in mind https://sfconservancy.org/GiveUpGitHub/. It hope that will be helpful to you.
@simon @contrapunctus https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2024/dec/12/linux-banned-russian-contributors-do-i-need-to/ this analysis gives more insight into the sanctions.
"The sanctions are primarily intended to punish Russia for, and to degrade its ability to conduct, its interference in U.S. elections, its flouting of international rules, and its aggression in Ukraine. It is difficult to see how rejecting Russian contributions furthers any of these goals."
SFC includes lawyers that side with Free Software.
