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#chatmail

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Delta Chat<p>In 2014 <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://ioc.exchange/@matthew_d_green" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>matthew_d_green</span></a></span> wrote "What's the matter with PGP?" <a href="https://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2014/08/13/whats-matter-with-pgp/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">blog.cryptographyengineering.c</span><span class="invisible">om/2014/08/13/whats-matter-with-pgp/</span></a></p><p>We'd like to humbly report completion of its main suggestions. Better late than never! :)</p><p>- Key management is automatic through <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/securejoin" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>securejoin</span></a> and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/autocrypt" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>autocrypt</span></a> protos</p><p>- <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> relays form an end-to-end encrypted email enclave interoperable with any e-mail address using proper end-to-end encryption. </p><p>- RFC 9580 "cryptorefresh" is rolled out in current releases and will be activated soon. </p><p>One to go? ;)</p>
Blake Leonard<p><span>I might fire up Android Studio and take a swing at building the most basic </span><a href="https://infosec.town/tags/chatmail" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#chatmail</a><span> app possible (sign up, add contacts, send and receive messages while the app is open, remember all of those things). I'm claiming the name ThetaChat. I will let you know whether I succeed before sleep.</span></p>
Delta Chat<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://infosec.town/@blake" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>blake</span></a></span> </p><p>1) Many people want end to end encryption by default and only. Signal has dropped SMS chats three years ago. Mixing cleartext and e2ee is problematic from a usable security pov </p><p>2) Several <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> operators in repressive situations/environments want to be sure their servers do not contain data that can hurt people. Strictly requiring end to end encryption helps. </p><p>3) We use IETF standardized protocols for interoperability and discuss with other MUA devs and help where we can.</p>
Delta Chat<p><a href="https://chaos.social/tags/openpgp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>openpgp</span></a> traditions and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/signal" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>signal</span></a> both bind a cleartext identifier, phone number or email address, to a cryptographic key. It opens up attack vectors as the servers/orgs controlling this binding can interfere.</p><p><a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a> avoids such cleartext identity bindings by creating random <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> addresses, as transport only. The cryptographic key becomes the identifier and we want it hidden from the transport layer. Only people being in end-to-end encrypted chat need to identify each other, after all.</p>
Delta Chat<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://fosstodon.org/@AAMfP" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>AAMfP</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://fosstodon.org/@goose" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>goose</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://fosstodon.org/@dammn" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>dammn</span></a></span> yes, our whole project is about proving in reality (meaning: working code) that email protocols can be streamlined for instant messaging. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> relays provide low latency always end to end encrypted interoperable messaging. The family of <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a> apps work with the permission free chatmail relay server network but also with run-of-the-mill email servers. Just make sure to use a dedicated chat address and don't mix classic and chat email on the same address.</p>
𝘄𝗲𝘀𝘁𝘀𝗶𝗯𝗲<p>…А вот и инсайды от <del>разработчика мессенджера "Мах" (ВК)</del> <strong>city124</strong> на 4PDA подоспели, когда собираются там банить <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/WhatsApp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>WhatsApp</span></a> и <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/Telegram" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Telegram</span></a> (скрины с цитат, чтоб каждое сообщение не дёргать). Также там упоминается <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>DeltaChat</span></a> , но судя по одноимённой теме на 4PDA , речь там скорее может идти об их <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/Chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Chatmail</span></a> (какое-то время назад в его теме уже были жалобы, что Chatmail‘ы были недоступны или заблокированы). С нормальными е-майлами там, скорее всего, будет всё нормально, если эти самые "норм. е-майлы" не начнут бороться с зашифрованными сообщениями.</p><p>Если кто считает, что у <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/Matrix" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Matrix</span></a> всё шоколадно, то смотрим это, <strong>на 10 мин. 30 секунде:</strong> <a href="https://youtu.be/gT38FfOXv1E" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="">youtu.be/gT38FfOXv1E</span><span class="invisible"></span></a></p><p>Что касается <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/Signal" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Signal</span></a> Messenger, то там, мягко говоря, не совсем правда: <a href="https://u.to/eQk3Ig" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="">u.to/eQk3Ig</span><span class="invisible"></span></a> <strong>(мануал в .txt, 9 kB, о том, как пройти там регистрацию и попасть в интересный чат с 22 участниками 🙂)</strong> Кстати, он там не единственный русскоязычный.<br><a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/tech" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>tech</span></a> <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/messengers" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>messengers</span></a> <a href="https://infosec.exchange/tags/%D1%80%D0%BA%D0%BD" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>ркн</span></a> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://lor.sh/@ru" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>ru</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.ml/@rf" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>rf</span></a></span></p>
Ivan GJ<p><strong>Delta Chat es demasiado buena 🔥</strong></p> <p><a href="https://fediverse.tv/videos/watch/21b54e75-f8ae-4a61-919c-a7d264f67b57" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">fediverse.tv/videos/watch/21b5</span><span class="invisible">4e75-f8ae-4a61-919c-a7d264f67b57</span></a></p>
Игорь Кербер<p>Я сделяль... <a href="https://e2ee.im" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="">e2ee.im</span><span class="invisible"></span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.ml/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> <a href="https://mastodon.ml/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a></p>
Raiden<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@reset_org" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>reset_org</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@threemaapp" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>threemaapp</span></a></span> <br><a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/threema" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>threema</span></a> ist sicher eine gute Alternative zu <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/whatsapp" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>whatsapp</span></a>, aber ich finde es schade, dass <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a> in solchen Vergleichen immer zu kurz kommt.<br>Der Betrieb von <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> Servern bzw. Relays benötigt nur wenige Ressourcen und ist darüber hinaus sehr günstig. Ein 100K User Relay kostet ungefähr 0.5 Cent pro Nutzer im Jahr. Sogar ein Raspberry Pi kann als Relay verwendet werden.<br> <br><a href="https://chatmail.at/" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="">chatmail.at/</span><span class="invisible"></span></a></p>
Diego Carrasco G.<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://chaos.social/@delta" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>delta</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://friedcheese.us/users/feld" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>feld</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@adbenitez" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>adbenitez</span></a></span><br>I've been trying <a href="https://mas.to/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a> with <a href="https://mas.to/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> and normal <a href="https://mas.to/tags/imap" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>imap</span></a> server the last few days (since my last messages). One thing I miss is a device management feature. For example, in case a device gets lost, I would like to be able to remove access. Afaik this is still not supported, correct? In that case, what would be the best way to discuss this as a feature proposal?</p><p>I've been working on a document</p>
Delta Chat<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@UpCloud" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>UpCloud</span></a></span> this is a nice offer! Please note "Delta Chat" is a cross-platform instant messsenger app offering that works with e-mail servers worldwide. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> relay servers are minimal specialized e-mail servers that only relay E2EE-encrypted e-mail. There is a growing community of <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> relay operators. If you can provide some free credits for those folks, in exchange for some exposure and publicity for supporting what we call people-sovereign infrastructure, you'd be welcome :)</p>
UpCloud<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://chaos.social/@delta" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>delta</span></a></span> Free credits for anyone running <a href="https://mastodon.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> on UpCloud</p>
Delta Chat<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.online/@unixtippse" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>unixtippse</span></a></span> you are not alone worrying. Besides what this social media profile posts, there is a lot of lively discussion going on beneath. We care for end-to-end e-mail interoperability. A bunch of us are going to the <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/OpenPGP2025" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>OpenPGP2025</span></a> summit starting tomorrow. There is a lot of specs and standards we follow and contribute to: <a href="https://github.com/chatmail/core/blob/main/standards.md" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">github.com/chatmail/core/blob/</span><span class="invisible">main/standards.md</span></a></p><p>However, multi-MUA compatibility on an e-mail address is a separate issue. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> relays are optimized for instant messaging.</p>
Delta Chat<p>The tech oligarchs, embodying and collaborating with authoritarians, are the horror artefact of the immense power that lies in configuring and operating our digital infrastructure we live and love on. Cryptography may mitigate toxic infrastructure but eventually we need to find and arrange more convivial ways for going about our lifes. <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a> and <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> are small contributions to people-sovereign convivial infrastructure. DM us if you need support setting up a new chatmail relay :)</p>
Delta Chat<p>new security milestone reached: <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> relay servers are hardened to only transfer end-to-end encrypted e-mail with metadata minimization. No cleartext message can enter or leave the secure chatmail network anymore.</p><p>We now talk about "chatmail relays" rather than servers as they only ephemerally store messages until delivery. Dirt cheap to run.</p><p>We opened up our <a href="https://chaos.social/tags/rust" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>rust</span></a> "chatmail core" infrastructure library and set up an overview of the community driven ecosystem ...</p><p><a href="https://chatmail.at" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="">chatmail.at</span><span class="invisible"></span></a></p>
devSJR :python: :rstats:<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://mastodon.social/@gael" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>gael</span></a></span> </p><p>Long time ago you considered#DeltaChat <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://chaos.social/@delta" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>delta</span></a></span> as default chat tool. Somehow, you didn't follow this path. There were issues indeed.<br>I would like to encourage you to reconsider this. The advances of <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> mean a low technical demand for operators. Users can onboard by different means like instantly. It is very easy actually. They have broadcast lists for communities. I think this is move towards the philosophy and ideals of you.</p>
DIGITAL PRIVACY .DIY<p>Currently testing our new <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> server.</p><p>WE LOVE IT!</p><p>Thanks <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://chaos.social/@delta" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>delta</span></a></span><br>It's so simple!</p><p>A new project is underway and Chatmail (DeltaChat) will probably be part of it (still testing).</p><p>Coming from Matrix, it is a blessing that these options are finally available (see picture)!</p><p><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/email" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>email</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/messenger" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>messenger</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/digitalprivacy" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>digitalprivacy</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/privacy" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>privacy</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/project" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>project</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/OpenSource" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>OpenSource</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/digitalsovereignty" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>digitalsovereignty</span></a> <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a></p>
DIGITAL PRIVACY .DIY<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://chaos.social/@dreieck" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>dreieck</span></a></span> yeah, that's always with "new" messengers.</p><p>I assume you're German, you could listen to that <br><a href="https://rdl.de/sites/default/files/audio/2025/03/20250325-chaosradiofr-w36047.mp3" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" translate="no" target="_blank"><span class="invisible">https://</span><span class="ellipsis">rdl.de/sites/default/files/aud</span><span class="invisible">io/2025/03/20250325-chaosradiofr-w36047.mp3</span></a><br>He explains why you shouldn't see it as an email messenger. I don't mind to see it that way. I think its great that everyone can use just their own email server if they want it to. But also using just <a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> is great. <br>Its super simple to use, doesn't matter its desktop or phone. <br><a href="https://fosstodon.org/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a> is great, simple and you're not just tied to one server like signal and co.</p>
Linux G. Fossman<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://plasmatrap.com/@zakalwe" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>zakalwe</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://furry.engineer/@soatok" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>soatok</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://masto.bike/@mjr" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>mjr</span></a></span> <span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://infosec.exchange/@david_chisnall" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>david_chisnall</span></a></span> Talking about reengineering <a href="https://social.vivaldi.net/tags/email" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>email</span></a>, what do you think about <a href="https://social.vivaldi.net/tags/Chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>Chatmail</span></a> with clients like <a href="https://social.vivaldi.net/tags/DeltaChat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>DeltaChat</span></a>?</p>
Diego Carrasco G.<p><span class="h-card" translate="no"><a href="https://chaos.social/@delta" class="u-url mention" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">@<span>delta</span></a></span> Thanks for the reply! I created a profile on android in the default <a href="https://mas.to/tags/chatmail" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>chatmail</span></a> and I used a new account in my email server (custom domain with infomaniak) for a second profile in mz Linux Desktop to check out how this works. I see <a href="https://mas.to/tags/deltachat" class="mention hashtag" rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" target="_blank">#<span>deltachat</span></a> created a new imap folder in my email server and started adding emails there (as expected).</p>
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