@jgoerzen

I agree and I would not even say, that my preferred solutions (mainly #Jabber or other federated systems) would be more secure for the threat models Signal tries to counter.

But, of course I can't recommend Signal to my family or to my friends, because they would not be able to reach me then and would wonder why I don't eat my own cat food

However, esp. with #Quicksy (which has an Indian variant now, called #Prav), I'ld say it's equally easy to get even non-tech people on board.

@debacle

>> 1. I don't want to use Google Android or Apple iOS. There is no first class client for Linux/#Debian/#Mobian.

Build one.

>> 2. I don't want to fuel the Amazon cloud of Jeff B., but prefer services in my home "country", the #EU.

Use #OpenStack or ask an EU provider to use it.

>> 3. I don't want to use a phone number for creating an account. E.g. it makes multi-account setups hard.

>> …grey beard, but I'll stay with #Jabber

How about #Mastodon?

@jgoerzen

@jgoerzen

I'm sure, that Signal is secure (for its intended use cases) and can be trusted. But…

1. I don't want to use Google Android or Apple iOS. There is no first class client for Linux/#Debian/#Mobian.

2. I don't want to fuel the Amazon cloud of Jeff B., but prefer services in my home "country", the #EU.

3. I don't want to use a phone number for creating an account. E.g. it makes multi-account setups hard.

Call me an old-fashioned grey beard, but I'll stay with #Jabber

@qbi @Gerbsen

Ja, tatsächlich schalte ich die #OMEMO-Verschlüsselung häufig ab. Wäre für mich blöd, wenn das nicht ginge.

@Gerbsen @qbi @signalapp

"Nutzt Signal!"

Außer, wenn man kein Google Android/Apple iOS hat/haben will.

Außer, wenn man nicht Amazon AWS nutzen/finanzieren will oder befürchtet, DJT könnte jederzeit den Zugang sperren.

Außer, wenn man seine Telefonnummer nicht als Chat-Id verwenden will.

Email vs. Signal ist eine falsche Dichotomie. Es gibt freie, föderierte Alternativen mit Clients für die meisten Betriebssysteme und ohne Telefonnummernzwang.

@j_r @erebion

Note, that #Jabber became better for large groups in recent years. It was horrible five or ten years ago, but IIRC, e.g. the developers of #Prosody @prosodyim and #Ejabberd @ejabberd optimized something about (not) sending presence or whatever.

Moderation is still not very advanced, but #XMPP made a bit of progress: There are "XEP-0425: Moderated Message Retraction" and https://xmppbl.org/

Better than nothing.

@erebion

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Universal protocol for many use cases, chat, social, conferencing, IoT.

Proven scalability (mainly in proprietary contexts: Whatsapp, Zoom, Grindr, FCM, Fortnite etc.).

Secure. Somewhat. Well, at least neither inflammable nor slippery.

Best is: DJT cannot call Jeff B. and tell them to shut #Jabber down, because there are nerve-racking journalists in the chat group. That might happen with Signal, though.

@xmpp

@erebion

I cannot even parse "foo is secure" or "bar is insecure". What does security mean in a given context? Is Signal inflammable or slippery?

The big plus points in favour of #Jabber/#XMPP are:

Not a silo in the Amazon cloud. Many servers available everywhere.

First class clients for many OSes, not only Google Android and Apple iOS.

Long history since 1999-01-06, very good #LindyEffect property.

#IETF standard governed by the #XSF, various independent implementations.

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@thomzane This Instant Messaging Platforms infographic by @niboe is also useful for a quick reference. It's from 2022 so maybe not 100% correct now.

We are back online

Both the site and all our XMPP rooms are working again.

The issues turns out was IPv6 not working in our setup which is still under investigation.