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FOSSGIS @amapanda@en.osm.townThere's currently a wave of bots trying to vandalize #OpenStreetMap by replacing names (and russian langauge names) with anti-russian slogans. The #OSM DWG has blocked 5,000+ accounts already
This is not the way people!
e.g. <https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/how-about-limit-new-accounts/101656/49>
#Ukraine #Russia #RussianInvasion
@amapanda OSM data should ideally not be vandalised, but I guess the best way to solve this would be to help Ukraine defend and win as soon as possible.
@richlv @amapanda I believe my problem is that you wanted to say a (political) sentiment in general but you have done it in the context of a specific project (OSM) which has (or should have) nothing to do with politics. As an OSM editor I firmly would like to reject OSM (and it's editors as such) trying to "help Ukraine defend and win".
(As a private person I wholly support that, but not in these 
s and not around #osm tags.)
That is my point of view.
@grin @amapanda
It's actually very simple, and we've been through this many times before.
You either support the victim, or you support the aggressor.
“Nice people made the best Nazis. My mom grew up next to them. They got along, refused to make waves, looked the other way when things got ugly and focused on happier things than “politics.” They were lovely people who turned their heads as their neighbors were dragged away. You know who weren’t nice people? Resisters.”
― Naomi Shulman
@grin @amapanda
We likely have a lot of common in OSM, opensource etc.
I value personal integrity and morals high enough not to ignore or minimise an invasion that is rife with murders, rapes, mutilations, torture, castrations, beheadings and more. Staying silent about a sadistic genocide for "political" reasons is low.
@richlv @amapanda You seem to believe that "not ignoring or minimising" means that you talk about it everywhere, regardless of place, topic, people, goals, projects, anything. You keep talking about it, you keep it getting involved everywhere you go. You seem to think that the opposite of "staying silent" is "talk about it all the time everywhere".
I believe that is a significant difference between us, including the meaning of the words "ignore" and "silent about".
@grin @amapanda
Not quite. It was a very specific, related topic.
The tactics you used - intentionally or not - often are associated with people in repressive regimes or intentionally trying to minimise the wrongdoings by diluting or shifting the topic.
For example, in USSR/russia many people "don't talk about the politics" out of fear. Nowadays "it's politics" is also a way to avoid saying "I do not support Ukraine".
We can figure this out with a few very simple questions.
@richlv @amapanda I don't see any progess in reading what I write from your side.
There's no "tactics": you see putins in every corner, and you feel entitled to call them out. Everyone's russian agent who does not agree with you and your point of view.
Let's agree to disagree. No point going on in circles.
Have a nice day!
@amapanda dropping rockets on farms, towns and cities is neither the way, so i guess this balances somehow.
@mawhrin
How can anyone believe that the Russians won't do the same in return? Should OSM be switched off completely until the war is over?What's next? Wikipedia?
Do you really believe that even one bomb will miss its target then? There are other sources of information than OSM! This balances nothing.
It only does further damage and at least weakens my solidarity for the people of Ukraine.
It only does further damage and at least weakens my solidarity for the people of Ukraine.
well if it does weaken your solidarity, then you never had any to start with.
allies whose support is highly conditional and depends on how polite is the group they claim that they support are never allies, they only are in it for their own self-esteem.
such allies can fuck off.
(no, i'm not ukrainian; yes, i can't be arsed to care about the defacement more than the war that's happening)
@amapanda restriction on automated account creation using captcha might at least slow the problem getting worse. But I don't see that being brought up in the discussions.
@amapanda
Oh shit.
This is not ok.
@amapanda While I don’t endorse these actions, they bring awareness. While everyone/most people in the western world know about the atrocities committed by Russia, the Russians and the Belorussians don’t, and every little thing that could deliver the real story to them is worth trying. The #OSM, I guess has backups and could be restored, people’s lives can’t.
@Siff @amapanda imo it’s kinda like the protestors that threw soup on a Van Gogh to protest climate change. It’s good that they’re trying to do something about a real problem but doing it this way accomplishes nothing.
I don’t like the idea of condemning people just because of how they protest but these actions deserve harsh criticism. It doesn’t really help anyone, hurts bystanders, and wastes time of people who volunteer their time to maintain free and open resources. These volunteers are going to fix this vandalism as quickly as they can, minimizing the potential positive impact this protest might have.
But yeah, at the end of the day it’s just petty vandalism of a map and real people are actively dying in an unjustified war.
@merpthebirb @amapanda Damaging priceless piece of art is vandalism; messing up with street names, which can be restored from a backup is not. Wrong comparison.
To be clear: I don’t think that this was the correct thing to do and I sympathize with the volunteers that have to fix it! I provided a point of view. And another: messing street names of the country you are at war with is nothing compared with having your streets and houses bombed and your people killed!
@grin @amapanda Please read what I wrote: I didn’t say that this is a good idea - I provided a point of view. Here is another: damaging the names of the streets of the country you are at war with is nothing compared with having your streets and houses bombed and your people killed!
And, just to be clear: I don’t think that this was the correct thing to do and I sympathize with the volunteers that have to fix it!
@Siff @amapanda I do not think this is the way to bring awareness, I do not think this is a correct way to support any agenda, and generally, I believe that any kind of vandalism for whatever ideology or reason is just that: vandalism. I do not really care about the explanation: it is a big pile of shit in the middle of the room, and we have to clean it and that is all. I am not interested about why it's so good for us to have shit in the room. Or it's "meaning". It's shit.
That's my view.
@amapanda Here for the replies.
@amapanda as much as I hate what Russians are doing, this effort could be directed elsewhere.
Otherwise it’s a great way to troll. The misery they’ve caused… this is a minor nuisance. I kind of agree with them on that.
And if this spills over to other people’s plates, in other parts of the world, then hello. We’re intermingled. Their pain should not be left unheeded.